Not only are you exactly right about the genetic engineers, but there's a movement in those circles to brand anyone who thinks there could be a problem with doing this as some sort of crazy luddite. That's moved things from a debate to a religion, IMO.

John and Rich, I wasn't sure if I was clear or not on your positions on genetic modification. Are you either/both basically saying that we should do no genetic modification of any sort at this time, or do either/both of you think that it is currently okay to do some sort of genetic modification? You both say that this might be okay at some time in the future, but I'm not sure how we'd get to that point if we don't experiment with it first.

Also, I agree with the comments that a lot of this anti-immigration hooey is just bigotry and racism. But I'm having a hard time understanding what is the basis for taking corporations to task for providing jobs to people outside of the United States. Other than nationalist privilege, I can't think of any other basis for the idea that they are "our" jobs.

Basically, if the genetic modification can be proven to be safe, then I say go ahead. But, people and corporations are rushing to push this stuff out into the market without fully understanding the long term ramifications (if any). Some have argued that cross-polination is a form of genetic modification...and it is, but that is just a human guided version of what happens in nature. That's MUCH different than incorporating worm or insect genes into plants and mammals.

Also, I wasn't taking corporations to task for giving jobs to foreign workers. I was just reiterating the "our jobs" argument that some float. I disagree that foreign workers are taking "our jobs". What concerns me is that companies exploit these workers by paying them lower wages because of their illegal status.

My position on genetic modification is that it is far too dangerous a thing to be messing with at all. As for addressing the argument of how we can ever learn about it, if we don't experiment with it...

Yes, you can't learn about it if you don't experiment with it, and I'm OK with that.

I might actually be OK with experimenting with it (probably not, but it's worth discussing), but NOT WITH PUTTING IT IN EVERY FOOD ITEM ON THE GROCERY STORE'S SHELVES, WITHOUT HAVING TO LABEL THE FOODS.

With regards to the jobs thing. Did one of us say they were "our" jobs? My argument is that we're not "giving jobs to foreign workers." We're exploiting foreign citizens to make a few pennies more per Nike sneaker, and that's unethical. Yes, in my ideal world, GM would still be making the cars sold to US citizens, in the US of A.

Henry Ford once bothered to point out that the irony of capitalism is that you need to pay your workers enough money to buy the stuff you manufacture. As I mentioned on the show when I mentioned the Barbara Ehrenreich book NICKELED AND DIMED IN AMERICA, I think we're past that point. There is no living wage, and I think employers that lower wages and ship jobs that USED to be in the US (that's what I'm talking about here) to foreign lands, need to be taken to task. Poverty is not the fault of the impoverished. As Barabra demonstrates, it's about low wages, and a lack of opportunities.